Is any commerce ok in BRC?

[Lecter]

Discuss this poll here.

[DaBomb]

I think Ice is OK, but I may be bi-iced. I volunteer for Camp Arctica and I know the money goes to a good cause, namely the community of Gerlach. As for coffee, I'm a little conflicted. I know the coffee supplier for Center Camp, and so I see how this supports his business. I also see how the Center Camp Cafe benefits the BRC community. So, I'm kind of taking a stand on principle in that Burning Man is supposed to be a non-commerce event. Perhaps if the paradigm was officially shifted and announced, I would be more OK with coffee sales. I love those guys (the cafe folks) and I personally can't live without coffee either, but it seems to be a little hypocritical to be selling stuff at Burning Man and I don't believe rules should be broken. Maybe they just ought to be amended. I'm just saying.

[Pink Daddy]

I agree that the coffee issue is two-sided. Perhaps if a 'coffee fund' was created so that the sales of the coffee paid for the coffee for next year (or current year, depending on consumption), then it would make a little bit more sense...

[Artzilla]

Ya know, I just love the soda guys, the crystal meth girls, the Domino pizza kids, the fella that runs the Mobil gas station in town and his 13 hungry kids.

Is supporting business run/owned by people we like or are needy or deserving, minorities, just starting out, inhuman, or disabled a justification for sales at BM or the reason for BM?

I don’t now why a beverage (coffee) is sold at BM at all? Hell, I love coffee, but why at BM.
It makes me suspicious.

I see a difference between Ice, as a necessity and coffee, as a hot beverage.

[water_bear]

Ice is vital. However the coffee shop can only exists becuase burners fail to bring needed supplies like soy / milk, coffee, water, sugar, tea. I do admit an espresso machine would be a pain in the @$s to bring, but heating water is easy. How hard would it be for burners to bring these things IF they cant live without them. The coffee shop is kinda opposes the BRC principals. The center cafe is a cool chill space.

I only brought $3.00 with me last year. I didn't plan to buy anything.

-Bear

[GrumpyOldBastard]

ice sales is essential. no one can go a week in the desert without having to purchase more ice. can you imagine Gerlach being bombarded with mid week burners just trying to buy ice? or saturday? ack! as for coffee, i bring my own pot, plenty of coffee, sugar and creamer to last me the week, and still offer others a cup of fresh brewed coffee. BUT.... i occasionally like to buy coffee from center camp... sometimes bacause its late and i dont want to brew a pot or i dont want to wait... sometimes bacause the morning after i simply dont want to brew my own. i personally dont have a problem with coffee or ice. if you dont like it, do what 1000's do... ignore it.

[Lecter]

no one can go a week in the desert without having to purchase more ice.I did.

But I'm no one. ;)

[GrumpyOldBastard]

LOL ok, ok. some people dont bring stuff they need to keep cold, or use others ice chests for their perishables. but i like sausage and eggs for breakfast. spoiled sausage sucks.

[wakeangel]

This year I bought ice once. I really didn't need to but it was to keep the beer cold that I was using for gifts. Beer, you ask? Well I read in another forum that beer makes a much better gift than some crap trinket that will get thrown in trash anyway. As for the coffee, I bring my own but I like to go to center camp and get a latte chat with people. If they took it away it wouldn't bother me.

[dr.placebo]

I've not bought coffee/tea/chai in 7 years at BM. I've certainly shared a lot of coffee and tea with campmates and neighbors.

On the other hand, I've used center camp as a place to meet and chill, so I'm the beneficiary of the coffee sales. I guess that makes me complicit.

I have bought ice. As an occasional backpacker I'll have to admit that ice is a luxury, not a necessity. But I do like a cold drink when the playa is desiccating this old body.

Bottom line, it's going to be a pain to try to roll back the small amount of commerce we do have. I'd rather focus on holding the line where it is.

[Blade]

I know I, for one, would *not* want to see that many people all crashing in the middle of the week from caffeine withdrawals! <grin>

FWIW, I did bring my own coffee stuff, but I also went (with my own cup) and bought a mocha one day, and boooooy did that hit the spot...


It is mentioned in the literature as being one of the 2 things sold, so it's not as though it's a nasty surprise to have to pay, either...

I do think it's kinda nice to have a giant coffee shop, and there's just no way something that big could be sustained for that long without cash.

[Regyna LongLank]

yeah, i've never bought anything at the cafe either...but i'm not the biggest caffeine consumer in general. i've really only gone there a few times, mostly because i was dragged there to give out buttons for BED, or to check out the monkey chanters, or the art in there. really i like the building itself most of all, it's just a neat structure.

ice we do get, as a camp, and we all do use that service, which i think is great. the way they have it set up, to help out the local community, seems good to me. if you have to do it they do seem to be doing it well.

[Scout]

You purchased a ticket to Burning Man = Commerce

A pass to leave the burn and come back is $20 = Commerce

A bus ride into town and back is $5 = Commerce

Coffee in at Center Camp = Commerce

Purchase ice = Commerce

Someone gets paid to clean the port-a-potties = Commerce

Those same someone’s will pump poo water out of your
motor home poo tank for cash = Commerce

Some peoples art is funded by Burning Man = Commerce

The hippy/punker/naked dude who sold you 2 aspirin telling you it
was X = Commerce

It really all depends on what commerce you are willing to live with. If you don't like them selling coffee, don't buy any. If you don't like to have your motor home poo tank pumped out, sleep in a tent. If you don't like that the Burning Man organization funding some art, quit taking their money and just build it for free. If you don't like using the port-a-potties, poo and pee in a bag and take it home with you and sell it on E-bay = Commerce

Me, I thank plastic jesus every day that I have an opportunity to look forward to, participate in and be at the burn every year.

[Regyna LongLank]

LOL! you so funny :D

[Blade]

Yeah, that's about what I think, too... i mean, all that stuff aside, it takes a whooooole LOT of commerce for people to be able to get there in the first place! I mean, geeze, the amount of money spent on food, water, and shelter *alone*, let alone the extras- blinkies/ glitter/ dress-up clothes/ theme camp stuff/ booze/ gifts for other people/ etc etc etc.


It's not strictly "no commerce," it's "no commercialism once you're out here."


To which I say yay, and let the whingers whinge no more! <grin>

[Scout]

I agree that it does take commerce to get to BM, but no commercialism once you get there. When I see a big sign at the gate that says BURNING MAN BROUGHT TO YOU BY BUDWEISER I will turn around and drive home.

I am bringing my best friend to the burn this year. He owns a company and says he is constantly looking to turn ideas into money (commerce). One of the things he is really excited about is the fact that he gets to turn off that part of his brain at Burning Man. He will be so ripped out of his normal environment that I see a life altering experience coming for him, or a complete melt down. Either way this is going to be so fun.

Scout

[Blade]

Very cool! :)

[DaBomb]

On very last chapter of BURNcast episode 3 (we call it the Bonus Track) Larry Harvey explains why coffee is sold at Center Camp. You don't have to listen to the entire podcast to hear this. Just down load it and click through to the final chapter through iTunes. It's an interesting story.

[Scout]

I have listened to what Larry has to say about coffee sales at BM and I couldn’t agree with it more. The Center Camp tent really has that coffee house feel only on a very large, outdoorish, dusty and hot scale. I have only purchased coffee there maybe twice. But, both times I took the time to find a seat and quickly found myself in conversations with someone I didn’t know. The coffee and drink sales do draw people to Center Camp much like ice sales do. I choose to get coffee or not. I choose to purchase ice. Because of experiencing the atmosphere at Campartica while purchasing ice in 2001 and 2002 I volunteered and worked a couple of shifts in the ice truck in 2004. There is nothing quite a strange as going from the hot playa and jumping into a full truck of ice and having your sweaty clothes freeze. I would have never experienced that without purchasing ice then volunteering. I’ve already volunteered for the ice truck for 2006.


In the end what you do or don’t do out at BM or in life is up to you, unless the voice are telling you what to do. Then, you can blame it on them, whom ever they may be.

Scout

[tonytohono]

Ice is essential. And I must admit that I have purchased coffee a couple of times while on my way out to the playa pre-sunrise to shoot photos when the rest of my camp was crashed and I didn't want to rattle any pans.

But I would be okay without it if necessary.

Any other forms of commerce or people portending them should rot in hell.

[Scout]

I myself work at least one shift at CampArtica so I like ice sales. Working CampArtica is a kick and a great way to meet people.

As for coffee, I do get coffee once or maybe twice a year. I have found some nice people in the Center Camp Cafe. I also have run into a bunch of people there that I call “Too Cool For School.”

I have really not run into people trying to sell me anything ever. Have you?

Scout

[ChaCha]

I admit to purchasing at both, because they're available conveniences. I don't *need* either. When out wilderness camping, the first to go are the perishables, everything consumed becomes more mindful. I agree and appreciate the people magnet aspect of center camp Cafe, and camp Arctica and their atmospheres. Have met folk, and engaged in some pretty neat brief conversations in line at the sani-huts - but hardly casual.

Nope, never been approached for commerce.

[dr.placebo]

I still have not bought anything besides ice at BM. I don't really need the ice, but I do surrender to creature comforts from time to time. And I like the donation of the proceeds to the local economy. And I've read that BLM requires the ice sales anyway.

I probably would have surrendered to coffee in Center Camp, but the lines have so far discouraged me. Since I get to enjoy Center Camp, which is funded through the coffee sales, I should probably do my bit to support the space.

I can't remember anyone seriously try to buy or sell anything in my presence. Even barter is usually regarded with disdain.

I feel sorry for the purists who can't accept what we have here. They are doomed to being disappointed in all things.

[Pedro in SFO]

I like what Larry Harvey said about the purpose of a cafe in anytown on plantet earth: The cafe is a place where a stranger can wander in, sit down with a cup, and hang out without feeling left out. Center camp and the coffee shop offer this essential component of civilization. Ahhhh.

[Blade]

I have really not run into people trying to sell me anything ever. Have you?

Scout



Ok, so this is an old thread, but:

No, but I have run into people who wanted to *buy* things from me!

Once when I was outside the Lamplighter Lounge, a few feet away from the Sangria Soiree- a GIANT booze-'n'-quesadilla party we throw for everyone who shows up until it's all gone- a guy asked me where he could BUY a beer.

Wow.

Um- (1), FREE BOOZE riiiiight over there (among many gazillion places), and
(2) if yo' ass can't find a beer on the PLAYA, you ain't trying!



The same year a chick pulled out her wallet after we'd shared our "refreshments" with her; since it was the day after the burn, and most of us had been there at least two weeks, we hadn't even *seen* money in so long it was really pretty jarring!



Oh, then of course there are the dumbfucks I've actually seen walking around going "Hey, does anyone have any [fill in the blank with recreational chemicals of your choice] I can buy???"


(- and they're not all undercover cops, either- one year a dipshit that was actually camping with us was doing that! Moooooron.)



But nope, no one has tried to *sell* me anything.

Though honestly, fill-in-the-blanks *have* been purchased on my behalf. <grin>




(I've heard stories of people going to various burner events entirely to make wads of cash selling drugs, which kinda makes me sad...)

[GrumpyOldBastard]

blade.... your opinion in this really doesnt matter, but mine does.

i've been approached quite a few times with folks wanting to sell me drugs. i'd say about 1/2 of them were LEO's. the others were just stupid. i've had newbies camped fairly close to me want to buy water from me on thusday. heh i told em no then took a nice long shower...

as for the ice/coffee thing. give it up people! holy crap! this debate has been going on for just about as long as BM has been going to the playa! ice is going to be sold! get over it! coffee is going to be sold! get over it! iffin you dont want ice or coffee, THEN DONT BUY IT! DUH!

[Lecter]

THEN DONT BUY IT!Or do like Chai Guy did, and stage an interactive and/or artistic protest by giving away coffee or ice or tea, etc.

[GrumpyOldBastard]

hell, i give away at least 4 pots of coffee every day... most every day. i have one of those Coleman drip coffee makers made for a burner stove. its cool.

oh, and Blade's opinion still doesnt count.

[Blade]

oh, and Blade's opinion still doesnt count.


Awww, hey, you don't have to feel as though your opinion is completely insignificant compared to mine... I mean, sure, it IS, but that doesn't mean we can't still be friends!

You can ignore my Words of Wisdom if it makes you feel better, I won't be offended!


<big twinkly fairy-dust hugs>

[Tom on the playa]

Larry's rationalization for coffee sales seems sort od weak. But I really don't care, I buy a few blocks every burn and coffee every day. Why not a food court? Pizza delivery? Camping supplies? Zig Zags? Bail bonds?