Tribe.net and Censorship

[DaBomb]

What a spectacle is happening on Tribe.net with their new TOU policy. Some claim this is the end of Tribe. Other's say this is the beginning of paid membership on tribe for adult content. How do you feel about Tribe's new TOU policy? Would you pay for your membership to tribe so that you would avoid their flagging policy?

[GrumpyOldBastard]

we dont own tribe. they can do what they want to. as someone said, burners are just a drop in the bucket compared to other demographics. right now, i have no problem with tribe or their policies, but i reserve the right to change my mind and leave if i decide that i disagree with them. just as i reserve the right to leave here if i decde that Lecter is doing stuff i dont agree with. fredom to do as one wishes. cool, huh?

[tonytohono]

I don't use tribe to cruise for adult content. I use it to network and meet other like minded people. The adult stuff is fine by me, there or not there, but it makes no difference to me.

I feel for the people who are so bothered by it that they have to go to the extreme to voice their displeasure, but it's free. What do you want?

[lono]

I can understand why they are doing it... I don't necessarily agree with the way they are doing it... but I understand why they have to. Since the content is on their servers... even if it's not theirs... they are still legally responsible for it. All it would take would be one person saying "that is a picture of me... I haven't givem my permission to have that there... and I was under 18 at the time..." and they loose their site.

Oh brave new world.

[Editrixstar]

I know it is very upsetting for people who took the time to build their communities on Tribe with the understanding that what they were doing was just fine according to Tribe, only to now discover that it is not. But legal climates change.

I was initially amongst the people who were pissed, even though I'm not directly affected by it. My first reading of the law the Tribe lackeys keep citing left me believing that the law didn't even apply to them, and a lawyer friend agreed with my interpretation. But the problem is even though they aren't actively engaged in posting content, as lono pointed out it is on their servers so this could make them liable. I can understand wishing to avoid a lawsuit.

What bothers me is that they are censoring content that doesn't even fall under this series of laws. Nudity in and of itself is not obscene nor sexually explicit, yet Tribe has been sending warnings to tribe moderators such as DJ Patrick of SOuTHeRn CaLiFOrNIa DaNcE cOllEcTiVe, telling them they must pull certain pics or their tribe will be made private. The Burning Man tribe was forced to become mature for this reason (Burning Woman tribe chose to remove the "offending" photos so they could remain public). After the 20th the Burning Man tribe will automatically become private and will be accessible to existing members only. Newcomers will be able to join by invitation.

That, my friends, is what truly bothers me about Tribe's new TOU.

FYI I just posted a new thread on the Burning Man tribe to discuss this:

http://bm.tribe.net/thread/a457c3fd-1add-40f6-b1b2-320a77883427?newpostingid=d2e46a66-cb3f-4647-acc3-64950413662a#d2e46a66-cb3f-4647-acc3-64950413662a

[lono]

Well here it is the 20th... so the new rules are in place... anybody have any stories? Personally I haven't noticed the difference...

[Editrixstar]

I just checked and the Burning Man tribe appears to have been reclassified so that it wasn't forced to become private. So that's a positive change. And some quick tests with the search tool located a number of adult tribes.

Perhaps the sky hasn't fallen after all.

[VeryBadSanta]

.. so the new rules are in place... anybody have any stories? ..

Went to Wade's Profile and BEGAN Flagging ALL of his pictures as Offensive with the following explanation "Imposing puritanistic beliefs on anyone other than yourself IS OFFENSIVE."

Got about 80% finished when a message popped up that they were undergoing system maintenance.

Should I assume that I may not be welcome there anymore? LOL.

VERYBAD SANTA

[Chai Guy]

For those unaware of the law that Editrixstar is referring to in his post, allow me to provide some background...

The Law is known as USC 2257 was introduced earlier this year by Congress in an effort to supposedly thwart child pornography. There are all kinds of articles on the internet regarding the law and the various interpretations of it. Essentially it boils down to this, if you are producing pornography, then you must follow the rules of 2257 which state that you must have each performer’s identification information on record for inspection by the Attorney General at all reasonable times.

OK, so it begs the eternal question, "What is Pornography?" Well for the purpose of usc 2257 Pornography means (as written in the law):

“actual sexually explicit conduct”
the term “actual sexually explicit conduct” means actual but not simulated conduct as defined in subparagraphs (A) through (D) of paragraph (2) of section 2256 of this title;
(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), “sexually explicit conduct” means actual or simulated—
(i) sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex;
(ii) bestiality;
(iii) masturbation;
(iv) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(v) lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;
(B) For purposes of subsection 8(B) [1] of this section, “sexually explicit conduct” means—
(i) graphic sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex, or lascivious simulated sexual intercourse where the genitals, breast, or pubic area of any person is exhibited;
(ii) graphic or lascivious simulated;
(I) bestiality;
(II) masturbation; or
(III) sadistic or masochistic abuse; or
(iii) graphic or simulated lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

Confused? Me too. So now try to define “simulated sex”, does that picture of you dry humping your best friend at his bachelor party count as "simulated sex"? How about the photo of you gingerly playing with your penis gourd at Burning Man, does that count as “masturbation? At what angle does the photo of your punani become “Lascivious exhibition of your genitals”, and when it is “art”?.

Are we beginning to see the potential pit falls here?
Now some people are saying “Hey wait a minute, TRIBE.NET isn’t “producing” any of these images, so usc 2257 doesn’t even apply to them!

Well, let’s take a look at that theory:

(a) Whoever produces any book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape, or other matter which—
(1) contains one or more visual depictions made after November 1, 1990 of actual sexually explicit conduct; and
(2) is produced in whole or in part with materials which have been mailed or shipped in interstate or foreign commerce, or is shipped or transported or is intended for shipment or transportation in interstate or foreign commerce
“(3) “producing” means producing, directing, manufacturing, issuing, publishing, or advertising;”

So, in my opinion, I would say that TRIBE.NET could conceivably qualify as “other matter”, and that under the law’s definition of “producing” that TRIBE.NET could conceivably qualify as “issuing, publishing or advertising” by simply hosting this content on their server. Of course, I’m not a lawyer, but I could absolutely see someone making a case out of this.

And we still haven't even gotten into actual child pornography, which is a whole seperate issue. I mean how many 16 and 17 year olds are there on tribe posting nude photos of themselves and or their friends?? This is a growing phenomenon that I haven't seen addressed anywhere.

Of course, you could start your own website and host other people’s images and risk 10 years of your life in Federal Prison (that’s Federal “pound me in the ass” prison by the way) to challenge these laws that you see as unjust.

However you look at it, if you want to get pissed at someone you might want to start with Congress.

[lono]

However you look at it, if you want to get pissed at someone you might want to start with Congress.

Way ahead of you Chai!

If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress? ~Author Unknown