Stop The Fucking Whining….Please

[Scout]

PLEASE stop fucking whining about people doing fund raisers to bring their art to the playa. There is nothing as much fun as having a group of people create something great to bring to the burn only to have some cunt piss all over their contribution because they used a fund raiser to get the money to bring that creation to the burn. What do think the Black Rock Arts Foundation does all year round? They ask for money (fund raise) to bring the art that you enjoy to the playa.

When did you get appointed to the fucking Politically Correct Police? The only thing more disgusting than far right shit bags are far left politically correct cunt bags.

Love and Kisses

Scout

[DaBomb]

I heard the complaint about fundraisers from many sources. Somebody said something to the effect (I didn't save the e-mail but remember the key phrases): "You're art is better than my art? You sound burnier than though! Money! Money! Money!"

Another response came from a friend recently. When I mentioned that Flaming Lotus Girls needed to raise $75K and were having a fundraiser, he made the comment: "Jesus, if people can't afford their art, they shouldn't do it. That's ridiculous."

I think it's pretty harsh to be critical of others methods, but it *is* part of the dialogue I'm hearing at this time of year.

[ChaCha]

I just ignore the whinning. If i'm enthused by a project and want to see it happen, I jump right in and contribute. marketing a fundraiser gets more folk out and familiar with a concept. works for me.

[Scout]

A week before I left for the burn in 2004 I was out walking my dog one Sunday morning and saw a yard sale a couple blocks from my house. Just as I was leaving the yard sale with nothing I saw their yard sale sign. GAS FOR BURNING MAN YARD SALE. After reading the sign I went back and talked to the two who were holding the yard sale.
Soon I found out that they had begged, barrowed and now were selling stuff to make it to their first burn. I gladly donated $5 to the cause.

The cool part about this is I saw them out at the Man during that week at the burn. They were as everyone is at their first burn overwhelmed by it. I still see them from time to time even though they no longer live in my area.

Scout

[DaBomb]

Cross-posted from my blog on Tribe:

I've heard both sides of the issue: too much asking for money to money makes the world burn.

In the old days, there was such a person as a "Patron Of The Arts". This was usually wealthy individuals and the Catholic church. Nowadays, art is more accessible to more people of any socio/economic level, but it still takes time and money to produce art.

I see this dialogue about fundraising as a clash of two cultures: as Americans we celebrate the concept of the individual. As burners, we celebrate the concept of collaborating, collectivism...and...and..er...oh shit...I *have* to say it...COMMUNITY (drink!).

IMHO, I don't think it's wrong to ask for a contribution and support for the projects that you bring to Burning Man, I think it's great when one doing the asking makes the transaction fun and memorable. I also think that those who don't wish to participate should follow their heart but that there's no reason to be snotty about it.

[ChaCha]

Who *are* the complainers? The same folk who demand to be awed and dazzeled spectators, but have little to contribute? Hrmph...

[ChaCha]

They were as everyone is at their first burn overwhelmed by it.

Scout

I love to see newbies playa-side!

[Scout]

I love to see newbies playa-side!


The virgin that I am taking is my best friend that I have known for longer than I knew either one of my parents. He was the best man at my wedding. So far it’s been really fun and funny. We have gone through his list of stuff to take twice. I have “helped” him with some of his choices in what to bring and what to leave behind. I also have not “helped” him in some of his choices of what to bring and what to leave behind.

He gets really excited and really freaked out mostly at the same time. This is going to be fun.


Scout

[ChaCha]

You're too funny. Would love to watch the expressions, that's the best. First time leaving is tough...

[Scout]

First time leaving is tough...


Cha Cha, you are so right about the first time leaving the burn is really tough. That first burn when I saw the Man burning I felt a little down because this was coming to a close. I know Burning Man like in life things come to a close. That first drive home was hellish because of my “fuck its over” attitude. Now, I have learned to love the entire event. Not just the preparation and the event it self, but the drive home. It’s all fun.

Scout

[ChaCha]

Absolutely with you on that one Scout,

My first time, it was purely selfish and internal "I don't want it end!!!" Subsequent years it has been more external and pouring forth to others. The trip home for me now is just the beginning of what I hope to carry out to the default world.

[dr.placebo]

I just can't get all that excited about fundraisers being evil. Participation is voluntary, and usually the funds get indirectly gifted to anyone on the playa who interacts with the art/music/bar/camp.

Following the thread drift, though, is more interesting. I remember my first day on the playa as an intense dust storm combined with equally intense cooperation to get a camp built. I had come solo, but I was "adopted" almost immediately. Then I had 6 days of challenging experiences, including doubts about whether I "belonged." When I left I was certain I was coming back, and I was anxious about explaining the whole thing to my spouse [it's taken years].

In 2003 I connected with more neighbors, a newbie couple from Montana. When I saw them react to their first burn I felt like I was seeing it for the first time, too.

Every year I arrive and witness a new world being created. I hope to never lose this foolishness.

[Chai Guy]

Here's the thing, it's all the orgs fault. Here's why:

I went to Burning Man for the first time in 1998, guess how much I paid???

$45.00 fucking dollars!

Now almost 10 years later the price has increased more than 5x!

Sure you've got to factor in inflation, and the BLM raised their rates in 1999, but guess where a BIG chunk of that money goes? And no, it's not all hookers and blow for Larry.

I'll tell you, it goes right into making a big fucking spectacle of the man. At one time the man just stood there, on hay bales no less. That's all he did. Then we burned him! Now he's elevated up on a god damned pedestal and we have to deal with this "Circle of Fire" crap, which by the way can only be seen by maybe 10% of the spectators, err... I mean "participants".

We used to be happy when the man's arms actually raised correctly. Now he has to jump up and down like a fucking jack-in-the-box via some computer voting system, what the fuck?

Now we need $50k worth of pyro shooting out of his ass for us to be happy.

And after watching all that what are we going to do, go dance in front of some black light string art? HELL NO!

Fucking entertain us! We want big production values! And that my friends costs $$$$ (just ask Larry.)

Now that being said, MY favorite things at Burning Man have always been the sublime low-budget offerings for example, the people who had a huge bowl of home-made chocolate chip cookies and a cattle prod set up on a card table with a sign that read "Get A Shock, Get A Cookie", fucking brillant! Or the "Naked Human Sushi Camp" these guys got you naked and rolled you up like a giant hand roll and then smacked you over the head with a green pillow yelling "WASABI" as they poured a shot of hot saki down your throat, simply inspired! And then there was this guy who just ran around giving out chai tea.....

Oh yeah, In 2000 I was actually a part of one of the largest rave camps on the playa, but we never had a fundraiser, we paid for it the old fashioned way, we sold drugs!

Anyway, now I hear the Org is funding art cars and rave camps. Yay!

[Blade]

Man, someone had an extra helping of grumpy in his Wheaties! <grin>


I don't really see how an individual camp holding their own private fundraisers - attended by people who support them and would probably be spending the money on some dance club or something anyway, usually- has a DAMNED thing to do with how BM spends the ticket money, you just hijacked the thread to make your own anti-Org points.


I agree with some of your points (not that I imagine you'll mind either way, just saying), like: Why bounce the damn man up and down? I know last year a loooot of people got lost with the whole spinning thing, THAT was dumb...

Frankly, I don't even give a rat's ass about the burning of the man, other than that (1) ooh, big fire, and (2) that way I know which day I need to wake up and start helping strike camp. I've been twice- the first time I was WAY far away with a pissy-ass bunch of people, which sucked, and the 2nd time I was with a bunch of friends I was having such a great time with I actually looked over my shoulder and said "oh look, it's burning now"- and we weren't even that far away!

So, no biggie to me whether it's on hay bales or a giant spinning carousel with lots of little horsies, it doesn't affect my own personal purity of experience or rape my tender memories or anything.

I *sure* the hell don't stick around for some big production, whatever you're talking about, afterwards... though I don't know what you ARE talking about- the only stuff I've seen afterwards, walking back to camp with friends, has been individual people or groups doing their own thing, just closer to the fire.
Is there, like, some "very special post-burn performance by Brittney" - paid for by BM - that I just completely missed?

(And BTW, at less than $40 a day, it's STILL a better deal than just about anything else I can think of, let alone anything that involves 24/7 entertainment, people, music, food, booze, and art out the wazoo.)


Also, yeah, the personal experiences ARE what make it amazing- like the chick who gave me a shot of homemade gin (which: wow, yummy!) out of her specially made bullet-shaped glasses in a cowboy outfit... that made the hell outta my day! But assuming you're still trying to stay somewhat on topic, you can't say that's inherently *better* than, say, Hookahdome, just because they raise money (from the same people they're giving back to, so it's more like a loan anyway).

It's just a different type of experience.


Regardless of your opinion of BM and their spending policies, though, some of your comments seemed to me a bit harsh: "Circle of Fire" crap, which by the way can only be seen by maybe 10% of the spectators, err... I mean "participants".


C'mon- the chance to be in that group and be part of something bigger than they've ever done before, much of the time, is a HUGE deal for a lot of people involved- knocking on a performance because you don't dig the backers is lame. And as far as "spectators/ participants"- don't be facetious with an inherently useful precept just because you're tired of hearing it. You can't have a performance with no one watching, and there's nothing damn wrong with someone who's been working all week- say, handing out nummy chai tea- sitting down and watching a cool show.

If you don't dig it, man, don't watch- but don't knock a bunch of people who have worked their asses off towards something they'll probably be excited about for years.


(... and I *still* don't see what all of this has to do with the actual thread topic, either... ;) )

[Chai Guy]

I don't really see how an individual camp holding their own private fundraisers - attended by people who support them and would probably be spending the money on some dance club or something anyway, usually- has a DAMNED thing to do with how BM spends the ticket money...)

You're right it has NOTHING to do with how the Org spends the ticket money. In fact, it's the other way around, the way the Org spends ticket money influences the perceived need by theme camps to spend more money than the members are able to afford. This also helps propel the notion that the org should be funding individual theme camps, raves and art cars.


So, no biggie to me whether it's on hay bales or a giant spinning carousel with lots of little horsies, it doesn't affect my own personal purity of experience or rape my tender memories or anything.)

Me neither, I'm just saying I don't wish to pay for it. Hey here's an idea, why not let Larry hold a fundraiser to pay for the gimmicks and fireworks surrounding the man? Just leave my ticket money out of it please. (oh wait, I got a free ticket this year, I guess I should shut the fuck up).

I *sure* the hell don't stick around for some big production, whatever you're talking about, afterwards... though I don't know what you ARE talking about- the only stuff I've seen afterwards, walking back to camp with friends, has been individual people or groups doing their own thing, just closer to the fire.
Is there, like, some "very special post-burn performance by Brittney" - paid for by BM - that I just completely missed?)

Paul Oakenfold?, DJ Tiesto? Buller? Anyone??



C'mon- the chance to be in that group and be part of something bigger than they've ever done before, much of the time, is a HUGE deal for a lot of people involved- knocking on a performance because you don't dig the backers is lame. And as far as "spectators/ participants"- don't be facetious with an inherently useful precept just because you're tired of hearing it. You can't have a performance with no one watching, and there's nothing damn wrong with someone who's been working all week- say, handing out nummy chai tea- sitting down and watching a cool show.)

I consider my free chai revolution a performance, I don't ask people to sit down and watch it. As a friend once said "Spinning Fire inside the circle is ok, Spinning Fire outside the circle, even better!"



If you don't dig it, man, don't watch- but don't knock a bunch of people who have worked their asses off towards something they'll probably be excited about for years.)

I'm not knocking the peformers per se, just the concept and maybe the "Do you know who I am" ego maniac who choregraphs the thing, again fire spinning good, non-interactive performance, not so much IMHO.


(... and I *still* don't see what all of this has to do with the actual thread topic, either... ;) )

Let me break it down for you then...

Back in the day people came to Burning Man because it was a fucking camping trip in the desert. Theme Camps were places where you had to actually DO something, not sit and watch a performance. Ticket prices went from reasonable to outrageous in order to fund extraneous pyrotechnics and "GEE WHIZ" type bullshit that no one, including you, seems to care about. A kind of "Keeping of with the Harvey's" syndrome evolved where by theme camps now think they have to be more elaborate and on a larger scale in order to compete with the artists who receive art grants from the org. Now theme camps and art cars want a piece of the gate because they can't raise the needed funds even with a series of fundraising parties. On topic enough??

[Blade]

Paul Oakenfold?, DJ Tiesto? Buller? Anyone??

I'd heard of people performing, but- are you saying the Org actually pays them to put on a show at BM? (Note: I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely curious.)



I consider my free chai revolution a performance, I don't ask people to sit down and watch it. As a friend once said "Spinning Fire inside the circle is ok, Spinning Fire outside the circle, even better!"

Well, sure, I completely agree, and I know what you're saying about your personal contribution (which I hope I run into, BTW!)- but it's also not invalid to be part of an artform that involves other people taking a load off for a while, either... If I wanted to sing for people, I could go up to individuals walking around and be a sort of wandering troubador, but it wouldn't be "wrong" of me to want, instead, to build a stage and wear fun costumes and share what I felt was my gift (this, it should be noted, is *entirely* hypothetical! <grin>) with a group of people at once, either.


My main reason for getting kinda defensive about the fire circle is that you started out your comment by calling it "crap," which to me seemed unnecessarily rude directly towards the performers themselves.

You did clear up what you meant in this last post though, thanks.




(...) theme camps now think they have to be more elaborate and on a larger scale in order to compete with the artists who receive art grants from the org. Now theme camps and art cars want a piece of the gate because they can't raise the needed funds even with a series of fundraising parties. On topic enough??


Yep!

I hadn't quite caught your point from your first post- this one really clarified it for me, thanks!

I see what you're saying, yeah...

From that angle, it feeds into an eventually self-destructive loop: the more funding people get, the more funding people want- and the higher the prices go, and the more people bitch, and yada yada...

There definitely needs to be a line drawn somewhere. I think the key is that "radical self- reliance" has all but dropped by the wayside, when it should (IMHO) be THE principal tenet of the event!

Right now it seems to me that BM is in a sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of place, which when you're learning and growing along with the event you're trying to organize, has to be a bitch to figure out...
People bitch if they give people money, people bitch for them NOT giving people money, people bitch about costs going up and they bitch about not having enough "amenities"...

It's got to be a tough position.

I don't have a "solution," I just think what I have all along: People need to focus on SELF-reliance way the hell more.

Meaning: If you raise your own money for your own project, great! If not, well, do something within your budget and try again next year- it's NOT a competition.

Hey, the Lamplighters have THE two biggest free booze giveaway parties out there, and that is 100% from the people who camp there! Camping with the LL means you are committed to not only working, but also contributing time and supplies to our community dinners AND to the parties. We don't raise funds, we just spend the year working our butts off to provide for ourselves- creating our robes, fixing the poles, hand-pickling the veggies for the Bloody Marys... That's part of why I'm proud to be part of the group, come to think of it- we may rely on volunteers to help out every night, but we're damned big on self-reliance while still being a tight-knit group.


Ah, hell, I think I got distracted and lost my point... <grin>



Um...

God helps those who help themselves? ;)

[Scout]

God helps those who help themselves? ;)

Blade, there you go talking about masturbation again. :)

Scout

[Scout]

So, Chai I notice that even though you bitch about the spectacle the burning of the Man has turned into and all the tens of dollars it cost to go to the burn it still hasn’t stopped you from going…..is that true?

Scout

[Lecter]

Blade, there you go talking about masturbation again. :)Woot! :D

[Scout]

Chai you sound like you have the worst case of Burning Man was better in the good old days that I have ever heard of. I know there is a string on that subject. You might posting there.

Scout

[Chai Guy]

The Org didn't pay for Oakie or Tiesto, the point is that they've helped create an event that fosters the Super Star DJ culture and a phenomenon of camps trying to out spectacle each other.

It's true, even with all my problems surrounding the event, I still attend. I haven't moved to Canada yet either, even though I've been known to voice my dissatisfaction with my country.

I also enjoy pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of an event that claims "NO SPECTATORS" as a basic tenent and then proceeds to put on numerous spectacles that require people to sit down and watch.

And truly, it was better last year.

[Blade]

Blade, there you go talking about masturbation again. :)

Scout



<grin>

... so? ;-)

[Blade]

Hey Chai Guy- this is NOT meant in any way facetiously:

Let us know where you'll be camping this year, if/ when you know? I'd love to run into you!

Well, ok, I'm most likely to be found in my camp...

Come by the Lamplighters lounge and look for me! I love chai, and I love meeting people who are fun to argue with! <grin>



(Same goes for everyone else, but especially Mr. Grumpybutt, who I apparently pissed off during my crap-ass year... mea culpa...)

;)

[DaBomb]

C'mon- the chance to be in that group and be part of something bigger than they've ever done before, much of the time, is a HUGE deal for a lot of people involved- knocking on a performance because you don't dig the backers is lame....don't knock a bunch of people who have worked their asses off towards something they'll probably be excited about for years.

Somebody like me, who had the biggest thrill in all my years of going to Burning Man by peforming with my fire hoop on burn night under the Man (last year, 2K5). It was a lot of work, a lot of stupid politics with my shin, not to mention the Discovery crap I'm enduring. It was HUGE, meaningful and special. And it cost me a lot of blood, sweat and tears.

[Chai Guy]

Not sure where I'll be camping this year, but I'd love to come visit you in the Lamplighter Lounge and perhaps even interview you with re: to the Lamplighter experience and such for Burncast if you're interested.

Thanks!

- Chai

[Blade]

Sure! It's getting me to shut up about LL that's the tricky part... <grin>